From Culinary School to Tech Sales Director with Bri Haralson | Ep060

Manuel Martinez: Welcome everyone. My name is Manuel Martinez and this is another episode of Career Downloads. For each episode I basically hit the refresh button, bring on a different guest. For today’s episode I have with me Bri Haralson. I’m excited because I’ve met her, like we followed each other on LinkedIn for a little while. Eventually we got to meet in person for the first time through a SIM event, which I’ve talked about quite a bit in the past about that organization. I was just very interested in a lot of the work that she’s done. She’s also very involved in, you know, organizations like SIM and seems like she’s very much willing to kind of help out in leadership roles within these different organizations to kind of, you know, help give back or, you know, uplift the community, whatever that might be. So it’s going to be a lot of good insights that I think we’re going to get out of this one. And with that, I’ll go ahead and introduce Bri.

Bri Haralson: Hi, thanks for having me.

Manuel Martinez: I appreciate you spending the time to kind of come down here because I know that you’re not from Vegas. You’re based out of Arizona.

Bri Haralson: Yeah, but I’m out here often. I feel like Vegas is my second home.

Manuel Martinez: And that was… It took me a little while because you’re here all the time that I was like, “Oh, she’s here in Vegas.” And you’re like, when I asked you, can you come on? And you’re like, “Yeah, of course.” You’re like, “But I’m out of Arizona, so it might take me a little bit.” And I was like, “Really?”

Bri Haralson: Yeah, a lot of people actually think that I’m local because I am out here so much. It actually started when I was a kid, my parents liked to gamble. And so I’d come out here a lot, like five times a year, and it really kind of became my second home. And then once I got into my career, I’ve always supported Nevada, specifically here in Las Vegas. So spending maybe two to four days out of a month here. So yeah.

Manuel Martinez: So if you don’t mind telling us a little bit about what your current role is and kind of some of the roles and responsibilities that you have as part of what it is that you do.

Bri Haralson: So I’ve actually been in tech sales for 16 years, so a little bit different than an actual technical practitioner. So with that, I sell technical tools to state, local, and higher education clients. Again, I’ve been doing that for 16 years with 13 of those years dedicated solely to supporting the public sector. I am getting ready to transition into a leadership role, supporting a team of sellers that support the public sector here in the West.

Manuel Martinez: That’s awesome. And I’m excited to kind of learn a little bit more when we get to that point, kind of what ultimately led you into kind of wanting to get into a leadership role and some of the things that you may or may have not done yet to kind of prepare for that. Now, you already kind of gave us a little bit that you come here to Vegas a lot, but if you won’t mind telling me where you kind of grew up and then eventually kind of what led to you starting your career and what you thought you were going to do initially.

Bri Haralson: Yeah, well, it was not this. Funny enough. So I’m born and raised in Arizona, one of the rare natives that’s around. I feel like most people migrate to Arizona are not actually from and… And growing up, I thought, you know, as soon as I’m in college, I’m going to get out of here. And yeah, that didn’t happen. I ended up going to NAU, Northern Arizona University, for culinary studies, actually. So I wanted to be a chef. Always growing up, I watched the Food Network, I cooked at home. My mom would actually give me money to make dinner. So I’m like, that’s absolutely what I want to do. So I started at NAU and then within a semester, I was back in Phoenix. I actually did enrolled to Scottsdale culinary. And one of the requirements was to work in their restaurant, but it’s not paid. It’s part of, you know, your degree there. And I’m like, how am I supposed to make money and support myself, but then also do that. And so I really was taking a step back. And at that time, I was working for a restaurant just locally and my boss pulled me aside and said, “Hey, you’re not going to recognize this now, but I think you need to look elsewhere. I think you’re meant for the business world and not this world.” And I did not get it. I was like, “So what? You’re letting me go?” And he’s like, “Not necessarily, but I’m encouraging you to.” And so I went out, talked to a few people and I got my first job as a sales training and hiring manager for a startup company. So it was a consulting company that helped emerging tech companies. So when the big B2B SEO boom came, and so I’ve never done it before, I kind of acted as if. And I helped grow, you know, people from zero dollars in revenue to seven figures and then sales floors that had zero people to 75 plus upwards. And so I actually started my career in leadership. And during those three years, I ended up getting an offer to come work for one of the tech company startups that I was consulting for. And so it was an IT training company that was locally headquartered here. But the caveat was you had to start in the lowest role they had, which is a business development representative. And this is inside sales. So it’s like making 120 cold calls a day. And I’m like, “This sounds terrible, but I might as well practice what I preach.” You know, I started in leadership, but I’ve never actually done it. So I decided, “Okay, this is the next step.” I started in the role, but within two months, I got promoted into first line leadership. And you’re about to ask a question. Do you want me to pause there?

Manuel Martinez: Yeah, it’s fine. It’s just before you get too far into it, I have a couple questions.

Bri Haralson: Of course.

Manuel Martinez: Did he eventually say, this manager in the restaurant, what it is that he felt or saw in you that said you’re meant more for the business side of it? Is that something you ever found out?\

Bri Haralson: No. I mean, I did thank him. I went in and he was still there like managing with the manager of the restaurants, like a smaller local chain of maybe three or four restaurants and thanked him later on in my career. But there wasn’t anything specific. Actually, pause. He told me that I am not Mary Poppins. And I took it kind of in like an offensive way at first. And I’m like, “Wait, what?” And he’s just like, “You are confident, but like confident and aggressive in a good way, right? Where you can do a lot more than just this.” And so that’s when it was like, “Oh, okay.” Because at first I was like, “Are you saying I’m mean? Like is that… Do I not have a large enough bag with tricks? I don’t know. What does that mean?”

Manuel Martinez: And that’s interesting. And it sounds like maybe he couldn’t pinpoint it exactly, but just there was something that just like, yeah, just being in the restaurant, just cooking that culinary, it’s not you, you seem to have like maybe a business acumen. And it’s interesting, kind of the other question that I had is it was interesting that you were able to go into kind of like a leadership role to start with, because that doesn’t happen. I’ve heard it happen, you know, a couple of different people, but like what was the process of kind of working, and again, a completely different realm. You’re going from the restaurant now to sales, not just sales, but a sales leadership role. And I don’t know if you were like in that restaurant, if you had like, if you were a lead, maybe not necessarily a manager, but like that type of responsibility.

Bri Haralson: That’s a great question. So when I was even younger, I want to say like, even when I was like nine or 10, my parents owned a structural steel company. And so I would type the invoices, the bids, I do filing, light work like that, office work. So I did have some experience working in a business setting. But then as soon as I got to high school, I was always two years behind everyone. So the only thing I really could do was work at those quick – it was Sauce. I don’t know if you guys have a Sauce here, but it’s kind of like Pei Wei. Do you have a Pei Wei here? Yes,

Manuel Martinez: Yes. There’s a Pei Wei here.

Bri Haralson: Like a fast, casual right, – because I

Bri Haralson: can’t actually serve liquor because I was under the age. And so that’s when I first got into the restaurant side of things. But I knew a bunch of people just in the sales industry. And at the time there were a lot of call centers in Arizona. So I helped sell leads. So the leads that go through. Yeah, that, that kind of fun stuff. And I knew someone there. And he was actually the one who positioned me for this job. And he’s like, I’ve got your back. I’ve seen your work. Like I’ve talked to you. I think you’d be absolutely great. Just basically pretend you know what you’re doing. And I did. And it was scary. I mean, I think my first day I walked in and there was, I actually had my own like training room. And they’re like, can you build a full training plan, you know, a booklet for how we’re going to hire people. And this is actually back when you would like place ads and like, you know, the newspaper and other things. We still had, I think, the internet back then too. But it was a little different, but it was just kind of full force. I wish there was like a clear pathway, but it just goes to like, it’s all about who you know. And if there’s someone that sees something in you, like they will advocate for you, which is great. So I was very fortunate to have that.

Manuel Martinez: And kind of now talking about the fact that your, that you, your parents had that business and you got to kind of work in the office setting, probably didn’t realize it at the time, but now kind of, I’m starting to put two and two together. And only because I’m starting to think back at, you know, kind of like my childhood, my parents, my dad and my grandfather and my uncle, they owned a construction company, right? So, you know, Mason, so that’s what they did. And I do remember going into, you know, in their little office and helping out and just doing stuff. And he’d be like, Hey, grab me that file. And sometimes I would find out like how they were planning. So it’s, I wasn’t doing any filing because, you know, secretary, like, they didn’t have me do that work. It was more like I did the actual manual labor, but I would go into the office when he would stop by. And that exposure, that might’ve been what he saw is just like, Oh, you’re not, it’s not completely new to you. Whereas like, you know, originally I thought like, Oh my gosh, like you never, no experience. Well, no, there’s some exposure. Now it’s not like a real job. Like you’re just kind of helping out, but that might’ve been kind of what he saw in you.

Bri Haralson: I think too, just growing up and because my parents were very executive focused, right? Running their own business and they’re like, what? This is going to sound kind of bad, but that your value is based on, right? How successful you are. And it’s not everything, but that’s kind of the family that I grew up in. And so I was always somewhat of a natural leader. So I was that person that would take control in a class project, right? And just like, you know what, I’ve got this, I’m going to do it all. Probably not the best I’m learning now, but that’s not the thing to take, but I would always take the lead. I also played sports, right? So being team captain and I’m a short athlete. So I always had to like prove myself. So I feel like I kind of had a chip on my shoulder too, and was always trying to be at the top. And so I think that might’ve shown when I was there as well.

Manuel Martinez: And now you’re asked to kind of put this training program together. You mentioned, you know, the sports, kind of working with your parents and kind of in your upbringing, did you also have opportunities or maybe not opportunities, but just experiences where you had to kind of figure things out on your own?

Bri Haralson: Yeah. So this might be going too deep, but my early, early, early childhood, and sometimes they say like your zero to five defined, right? A lot of your like core traits. So my real parents were not the best. I’m actually adopted. So I was adopted by my paternal grandma and I don’t want to get too far off the topic, but there’s a point here. They would often leave and, you know, CPS was in and out. And then I think when I was either two or three, and my sister is 10 months younger than me, we were left alone in our home for three days and I, they found us and ended up coming in. And I was actually, I figured out how to open cans to feed my sister. And so I think that kind of like started, you know, even through intensive therapy that I’ve done throughout the years, they’ve said you’ve kind of forced to grow up, right? At an extremely early age. And so that kind of defined, I think, the mentality of like, I’ll just figure it out. I’ll just get it done.

Manuel Martinez: Got it. No and that makes sense. And a lot of times, like you said, we don’t realize it at the time, similar to you, I’ve had those experiences slightly different. So I’m the oldest of four and my two younger siblings, my mom had to have C-section with all four of us. So then for the youngest two, like she was in bed, like she couldn’t go through. So it was me kind of going, I was a little bit older, but, you know, having to feed them, having to go change them. So like they were very attached to me because I was kind of like, you know, my dad’s out working. My mom was at stay at home and, you know, here I am having to figure things out. And like just ask and okay, what do you need me to do? Okay. Hey, turn on this stove, do this, blah, blah, blah, do these things like, okay. And eventually I like basic stuff. But also my dad had that upbringing of, you know, in construction and figure it out. Right. Like, hey, go do this thing. Well, how do I, how do I do this? Figure it out.

Bri Haralson: I don’t have time to tell you, like, let’s just –

Manuel Martinez: I don’t have time to tell you. And then the other thing was, is like, nobody showed me.

Bri Haralson: That’s, I think too, like a generational thing, right? Because our parents and everything, it was, there was no hand holding. It was, yeah, I was forced. I was, you know, people, they say they were latchkey kids, right? They had to feed themselves. They had to figure out what to do after school. And now like, I feel it’s nothing wrong with today’s, but it’s a lot more hand holding and like, let me show you how to get there. And that’s great too. But I mean, I try to take that approach with my own children of like, let’s create some feeling of independence and so that you don’t always have to rely on someone. And yeah, I think there was a lot of that growing up, especially early on. And that’s carried throughout my career journey.

Manuel Martinez: All right. Now kind of brings back in. So then now you’re asked to kind of put this together. So how did that kind of, you know, play out?

Bri Haralson: Yeah. So I quickly went and watched Glen Gary- Glengarry Glen Ross, the old sales movie. I don’t if you’ve ever –

Manuel Martinez: I have not. I watched all these – and Boiler Room. I know this is so bad, like to pick up like things. And I was like, you know what, I’m going to learn from this. I’m going to read a bunch of materials. I’m going to talk to a lot of people. And I just, I put it together and I kind of learned on the job, you know, there’s people are like, what’s the best advice? It’s do the work, like do the work and you will figure it out. And that’s the easiest way. But you know, I, I scaled that team, I want to say from about five people, I think the most we ever had was around 30 to 40 folks working in there. It was a really great start to my career. And I was very fortunate for it, but it really got me into learning the art of sales, also recruiting and then retention, right? How do we keep the people that are performing better here? And how do we keep them interested? What drives them and all of that? So I mean, it turned out well, I guess I’m here, right?

Manuel Martinez: Yeah, it did. And so already being in that leadership role and it sounds like you figured it out and were very successful and, you know, growing teams, retention and all that, again, it’s never perfect, but I mean, you figured it out. At some point, I’m assuming after that, I don’t know if you kind of continue to kind of go upwards and you thought, hey, I want to stick down the management leadership route, or I want to kind of diverge at some point and go back to being an individual –

Bri Haralson: I can elaborate on that.

Bri Haralson: So, you know, after I worked for the company that I was consulting for that had me come over, I had risen through the ranks, right from BDR to a sales executive to leadership within their training people on a similar journey. The natural step in that kind of sales is to move into the field. So field sales, right? Not inside sales anymore. And I had another IT training company reaching out to me and it was for a field sales role for their enterprise team. And it covered a little bit of public sector as well as enterprise accounts like Amex. It was actually one of the NetApp authorized training providers. And so I was like, absolutely, I’ll take the interview. And so that’s when I got into field sales. So I was an individual contributor. I guess rose the ranks quickly there too. I got, you know, the sales MVP. And so I’m like, wow, field sales is really great. And working with that company, I got introduced to all of the different teams at NetApp in different regions, but also the partners that supported it. I really started to build my community or network. And then I can’t remember if Gartner had sent me a message or maybe I had applied for a Gartner role when the time felt right. And I think I actually, Chelsea, that was on here, I saw, right? The interview process is rigorous. I did, I want to say maybe seven to 10 interviews. You have a panel. It took a couple of months, but I got hired on. And after I went through the process, it was, this is for a public sector role. So you’re going to be supporting, at the time it was SLG, so state local government. And that’s when I was like, you know what? Sure. Why not? I’ve done it a little bit. I haven’t done it full time. I’m coming off of, you know, Amex and some of these larger accounts, but it sounds great. So I don’t know if it’s changed now, but I was one of the youngest field sales reps to be hired at Gartner. So it was a little intimidating, but I, that’s when I first started actually supporting Nevada. So I’m kind of all over the place right now, but I ended up supporting Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona in the SLED space there. And then I had my son and being out in the field every day was not…

Manuel Martinez: It was not the business.

Bri Haralson: It was not the business, especially when he was that young. Like I tried it, I came off my maternity leave, and I want to say I tried it maybe for like six or seven months, but there was a local opportunity here just to support SLED in Arizona. And so I, you know, after my three years at Gartner, I transitioned over to the partner side. So I’ve kind of hopped to different areas of tech, right? And worked for a local reseller that specialized in Arizona, Nevada, and New Mexico. So with that, I got exposed to, you know, a bunch of different technology, NetApp, Cisco, CloudFlare, so right reselling. And that’s where I really feel like I built the community and SLED. And I was like, you know what? I think I want to do this for real. Like I want to continue. I don’t want to change further down the road. Like I’m a sled for lifer. I actually call it my civic duty without civic pay. God bless those that can do it. But it’s a way for me to give back to the community. And so with that, I, you know, worked with a bunch of different companies and there was a position open at one of them, Elastic at the time. And I had helped bring Elastic into the state of Arizona. And so naturally it made sense to go to the manufacturer side after that. And then, yeah, that’s how I got to where I am.

Manuel Martinez: You mentioned kind of doing the work, right? And especially with rising through the ranks and a lot of times people from the outside looking in, you kind of looking like, oh, what is it that this person’s doing? You know, especially being that young of an age. So when you say just kind of doing the work, what does that look like? Because I have a little bit of experience on the sales side as, you know, a sales engineer. So now one of the things that I didn’t realize at the time, and I’ve talked about this a little bit before, is I thought you just show up to customer meetings. You know, I have to know the technology, but then that’s it, right? Like I’m here to just talk about tech. But there’s a lot more that goes into that, a lot more planning, especially, you know, working with an account rep. There’s a lot that goes on behind the scenes. It’s not just learning the technology. It’s understanding business speak and, you know, following up. And you’re doing a lot of project management. And I covered at that time public sector and the sales cycles are a little bit longer, but you started kind of private. So that’s probably a little bit faster. But there’s project management. There’s a lot of, you know, organization. So what are some of the things that you had to do there?

Bri Haralson: Yeah, so I mean, you nailed it on the head with it. It is almost like being a project manager, like being an account executive account manager. I think, see, like best analogy, I can put it as like a quarterback. That’s usually right. You think, oh, well, he just throws the ball to the person that makes the touchdown, right? Lobbying the ball to your engineer or whatnot. And right, that kind of thing. But it takes a lot, right? They’re running the plays, they’re building the trust with their team and that kind of stuff. So it’s the work on the back end, right? Sure. Do I send quotes out? Right? Am I pitching, pitching? I don’t really, that’s another thing we can get to. I don’t pitch. I feel like I truly work for companies where I feel like these solutions are helping the greater good, but I digress. It is. It’s a lot of the coordination. So we have like our internal business team or franchise, as you will, like you’re running your own business, right? So you have someone from the engineer team, someone from the services team, someone from marketing, and they’re basically saying they work for you and you’re orchestrating, right? All of the moves that are being made. Hey, I need you to be here to do this. I need us to do this for this client. I want to put on this event. And so you are, you’re a full fledged project manager in the background. But then you also need to spend the time out in the field with your clients in the community. And that’s really where the work happens. People think like, oh, you know, nine to five, you’re on the calls, you run your meetings. Like that’s not it. It’s going out into the community and showing that, Hey, I’m invested in what we’re doing here, right? I’m a citizen. I’m a tax paying citizen usually in one of the areas. Obviously I support more states than just what I live in, but, and I want to build this relationship. And so it’s funny cause like the best and worst advice I have is do the work. You put it right. Because you do need to do the work, but the work needs to be intentional and meaningful and you need to have influence right over what you’re doing. So just putting your head down and working and doing the bare minimum of what they’re asking isn’t going to do it. It’s that extra step of I’m going to actually put my, my personal time, not just my work time back into this community that I’m supporting. I’m going to learn the ins and the outs of public sector. I’m going to work with my partner community, right? And see what they’re doing and how I can better them. And so it’s the extra time or the off the field time that is really where the work is.

Manuel Martinez: And you kind of mentioned being the quarterback, like, yes, you’re coordinating or it was like, as a project manager, originally you were the person doing the work, right? When you first started, you’re building this, you’re, yes, you’re developing teams. What’s that transition or what did you, what did you struggle with kind of going from I’m the person that does it. And it sounds like you’re very confident and Hey, I can figure it out, right? Like my confident that I know how to do it day one. No, but I will figure it out. And then kind of sometimes that people, and I heard something that was very, I’m trying to remember who said it, but it was very much people who are used to getting things done and kind of overcoming those challenges. They tend to have a harder time letting other people go because they know I can do it. I can figure it out. So at some point, especially as account manager, if you’re telling the marketing team or your SC or your SA, whoever it is to kind of go and do these things, like you have to let go and communicate exactly what you want.

Bri Haralson: Yeah, it’s hard. So once you figure it out, let me know. No, you get back to me on that. It is, it’s herding cats for lack of better term. But I read, I’ve read a couple books on this and it’s learning how to have decentralized command. It was actually based on military and people that were in the Marines and Navy. It’s hard, right, to put your trust into other people. And I would say even to this day, even though I’m like this far in my career, it’s something if I were to pick one thing that I struggle with, it is it’s trusting people enough to get that stuff done when you’re asking. And then it’s that constant having to follow up and like you have a million things on your plate, but you need this done in order for that to get done. And it’s all this like back and forth and put it connecting the dots and crossing the T where is it crossing the T’s dotting the I’s whatever it may be. I think the best advice I can give on that sense is going to be having like expectations be really clear and being in constant communication. So like something that I do, you know, if my sales engineers in the past are watching this, I am very upfront when we start of like, I love to have fun. Yes, absolutely. But you know, my clients are my babies. They’re all my babies and I want to take care of them. And so like things don’t get dropped. I understand like I can be, I don’t want to say harsh, but tough, right? There is an expectation, but I lay those expectations out in the get go. And then I also asked like, what do you need from me for you to be successful. And then I make sure that we’re in constant communication so that things really don’t get dropped. And if they are, I’m at the forefront of it, right? Because I’m constantly checking in. And there’s no, oh, well, why are you asking me for, you know, asking me for that? Why are you like, you know, poking at me? And I’m like, well, you know, remember that first conversation that we had, that’s exactly why I’m doing it. So I think if there’s clear communication and expectations are laid out, then that helps with that decentralized command and having people, I guess, operate right underneath you or for you, whatever that may be.

Manuel Martinez: Sounds like, and I’m going to try and summarize this as best I can, but it’s really setting those expectations, having clear communication of what, what your standard is, what your expectation is, and, you know, deadlines. And I’m sure you’ve, you’ve probably have learned to kind of put in a little bit of buffer time. Like if you need this by Friday, you probably say, I need this by Wednesday.

Bri Haralson: Oh yes, always. And you learn which people are going to get you right things on time or after that. And then you can adjust, but it’s having that joint accountability of like, there are certain things you expect from me and there are certain things I expect from you. And we’re going to be lock in step to carry that out. Again, I’m still learning. It’s probably one of the things I’ve struggled with the most because going back to my childhood, I’d step in and be like, I’ll just do the project myself. You can’t do that. Like burnout is a real thing. If you take on everything, you keep saying, yes, you will be exhausted. And I did that at one point in my career and I felt it, it affected my home life. It affected, you know, my work life. I was just overextended. And so I think that has helped me kind of ease into, you know what, I trust you to do this.

Manuel Martinez: And what’s that balance of constant communication versus micromanaging?

Bri Haralson: Ooh… yeah.

Manuel Martinez: And maybe you kind of teeter there because I’ve seen that there’s, you know, there’s one where we have to have the constant communication. And again, everybody’s different. You know who the people are like, this is what I have to tell you. You know, if something different comes up and say, hey, there’s a change or there’s additional requirements, whatever that might be, here’s the information or hey, I need to get some information from you as opposed to almost like every day or every day, hey, where are you at with this? Hey, where are you at with this? So is that something that you struggle with, or?

Bri Haralson: Yeah,

Bri Haralson: so I think there are, and I’m not going to say there are certain people that do need to be micromanaged. Absolutely. But you need to do it in a way where it doesn’t feel like they’re being micromanaged, where you’re taking the approach of this is like, you know, in their best interest and, you know, figure out what motivates them and you’re not freezing it as why is this not done? Right? It’s, hey, I just wanted to check in on the project. You know, our client is, you know, trying to get this done, you know, by this date, where are you at? Is there something that I can do to help, right? Move the timeline along. And so you’re changing the mindset from like, hey, you’re not doing something on time to like, what can I do to help? And that there’s a greater good at the end of it, right? Your project or your project, your customer needs something, right? It’s not necessarily me asking you because I need it. But I think also having scheduled syncs already is really big, right? Because that way it doesn’t seem like you’re just putting time on the calendar because you want that done. It’s, hey, this is the time for us to go over the things that we both said we’re going to do, both of us, not just me and you, where you can tell me, hey, these are the things I need from you, where you’re at, you get your status updates. And so there’s no expectation when I’m on that call of like, why are you micromanaging? Well, this is what that call is for. And it’s already on the calendar and we have it early and often.

Manuel Martinez: The other area where you kind of had mentioned is at some point you’re kind of building the community, you’re building a network and it’s kind of who knows you and you’re starting to kind of get pulled around. Now, when I looked at it, you did spend quite a bit of time, you know, in these different organizations, you kind of rose to the ranks, but at some point you kind of moved on. Is it, again, just, it might be different, but sometimes where you, the one kind of like, I’m looking for that next thing and I’m not getting it here. Or is it somebody’s coming and they’re seeing, you know, the work that you’re putting through and saying, hey, you should look at applying here. Hey, there’s an opportunity that I think you would be good for.

Bri Haralson: That’s a great question. So I feel like if you are very successful in your role, you will always have, you know, two to three opportunities that you can take advantage of. Right. I think anyone in tech sales can come here, especially in SLED tech sales. If you’ve done it for a while, you have recruiters knocking on your door all the time. Right. Because it’s a very specific person that they’re looking for. So if you’ve done it for, you know, the 10 plus years, your, your LinkedIn inbox is flooded and it’s kind of bleeding through that noise. But for the most part, I think any time that I have moved on to another, it’s because I’m at a point wherever I was at where I wasn’t getting enough. Right. Where I need to take the next step to grow. So if we look back at, okay, I was consulting, right, and leading, but I had never actually sold myself. So it made sense when I had that opportunity presented to me to be like, yeah, you know what, you’re right. I should actually do what I’m teaching. Right. That’s just going to make me better in the longterm. And so there, but then I reached the point of like, okay, well, what’s the next step after inside sales field sales. And it just so happened that someone was reaching out to me. And so it was kind of like all of the stars and moons align whenever I’m at this point of, you know, needing something more and wanting to, you know, take it to the next level that I look at the people that reach out and I’m like, hmm, I think this one’s going to be a good opportunity. I don’t want to say like, oh, hey, I take every conversation, but I do like to stay open to conversations. Something I always say in the selling world, it’s ABC always be closing. But for me, I look at always be recruiting, right? Recruiting for your next job, recruiting for your next hire. So every conversation that we have, every LinkedIn engagement, right? That is all building up for something in the future. I might not know specifically what that is, but even like this, right? We became friends on LinkedIn, we met in person and now we’re here. You know, I didn’t know that this was going to happen. You know, it’s every little thing, but it was probably an intentional thing, right? On your end of, hey, there’s someone in the community. I’d love to have them and put them on my network. I’m going to make the request, right? We’re going to go to shared events, those sort of things. And so I feel like if all of that’s in place, you never actually have to really look for your next job. The opportunity is usually in front of you and you get to make the decision on where you’re going to go and what you’re going to do next.

Manuel Martinez: I would agree with you quite a bit on a lot of that. If you are doing the right activities, if you are performing, you know, if you are a high performer, and again, that doesn’t mean that you’re like the A type personality, like you’re out and about, but you – people are starting to kind of know who you are, right? So like you said, I made that request and I wasn’t just like, okay, I’m just going to watch everything that Bri does. I know exactly what she’s done. But then same thing, you start to see people, you understand, I’ve talked to other people about you, right? And a lot of times that’s what might happen is how you carry yourself when you’re doing your work. And then even outside of that, like you could have been the best salesperson, right? And maybe in –

Bri Haralson: I’m like, “Could?” No I’m just kidding. I’m joking.

Manuel Martinez: In this scenario, you could be great, but if people like your SAs, the marketing team, if nobody likes working with you, those other opportunities aren’t going to come because they might be like, oh, you know, she micromanages everything. She doesn’t clearly communicate, you know, all these things, maybe from a work performance standpoint, right? At the end of the day, you are achieving your numbers – you’re doing whatever it is – or that needs to happen, but people around you don’t enjoy working with you. That comes around.

Bri Haralson: I can honestly say like there was a point in my career and it was when, wasn’t the very start, because I feel like I was a little bit more laid back, you know, I was late teens getting into my career, but maybe like early twenties, right? Where I noticed the industry I’m in, right? It was, and this was nothing wrong with it, but you know, you’re surrounded by males, a lot of males who are, you know, 40 plus here I am, early twenties, the youngest person. And you, I think you almost adapt into this person that’s not necessarily you because you feel like you have to. And there was one role where I felt like I didn’t want to make friends. I did. That was like why I said the worst advice and the best advice. I put my head down and work. My numbers were there and I just, I didn’t care about the bonding of, you know, my team or support or getting to know anyone. And it didn’t fare well. Like, you know, at the end of the day, it was me on my own and I kind of took a look back and I’m like, I don’t have to be that person. I don’t want to be that person. And I think, you know, going throughout my career after being that person and then also working for people like that, I’ve learned like, that’s like one of my biggest fears in my career is like, gosh, you know, stepping back into this leadership role, like a title leadership role. Like I feel like I lead, you know, in some of the stuff I do community wise, but I hope I’ve learned from that experience and I would hope that if someone felt like I was doing that, micromanaging or, you know, overcompensating for being a young female and this that they would come to me because it’s like, it is, it’s one of my biggest fears. Like, I don’t want, I don’t want to be like that. I, you know, I want to create environments that people want to be in. They want to work for you. They want to work with you. They want to be there because of who you are, how you lead. And that’s hard. It’s really hard when you’re coming from being, oh, I can’t think of the word. Why am I, it’s escaping me, being on the other side, right? Being a minority and not the majority in this industry.

Manuel Martinez: If you’re okay talking about it, I think that that’s a good topic is, especially in that scenario. And I’m sure you’re not the only person that’s encountered this. And I’m going to say the only woman that’s encountered this is, especially being younger, you know, starting your career, it is more of a male dominated industry. And I’ve talked to a couple other field reps and, you know, just women in general that when they kind of start out, there is that, that balance of like, well, I don’t want to kind of make this, I just have to do the work to kind of prove that I belong. But then at the same time, like you don’t want to I don’t want to speak for you. I’m going to speak on one experience from one person that has told me this is at the same time, like there’s a balance of like trying to make those friends and thinking like, Oh, you know, there’s not everybody, but there have been situations where it’s like, Oh, well, oh, you want to be friends? Like, okay, let’s go, let’s go out outside of work and stuff like that. So it’s how do you manage building a relationship, right? Where it’s a professional relationship, like what you and I have versus distancing yourself to where you’re like, because now there’s a stigma like, Oh, she’s a B or like, Oh, she’s hard to work with. But that’s not that it’s just you and your position have a much, you’re going to have a much harder time than I would even being a minority from like, you know, a Latino as opposed to like a female. That’s very different.

Bri Haralson: I think you do kind of have to set boundaries at some point? You can’t just go out and let’s say go grab drinks with everyone every day. You can’t always be this friendly, gregarious, like, because there is still at the end of the day, there is work to do. I think right now the industry is a lot more accepting of women where they don’t necessarily feel like they need to prove something or at least I don’t. And that I think is a natural progression of me just getting more confident with myself being in this career. But this is an interesting way to approach it. I, I’ve read something the other day about work-life balance, right? And that, that doesn’t exist. It’s more of like work where it doesn’t feel like you’re working and it blends seamlessly into your personal life. And so I think once I got into supporting the public sector, those lines didn’t really get blurred anymore. My clients became my friends. Like, you know, I went out with Cynthia yesterday and went to dinner, right? She’s a partner of mine and we’ve become friends of the year because it is no longer a, this is my work, this is my life. Like, these people are my friends, this is my community. And I think if you’re supporting the mission that you believe in, in your job, that naturally carries out through your personal life. So there doesn’t need to be any, I don’t want to say cause boundaries, yes, are important, but there doesn’t need to be any clear –

Manuel Martinez: Delineation.

Bri Haralson: This is this. Yeah. But there are certain people, I think you come and I’m not going to say like, I get along with everyone. Cause that is definitely not true. That you know you’re not going to spend a lot of time with at work and that’s okay. That’s going to be okay. And I don’t, I think for the most part, people can sense that, if that’s not – And sure, you know, we said people are going to think, Oh, well, what if she’s a B, you know, she’s just – but that’s okay. I think that’s part of growing up too is like, not everyone is going to like you and the like quicker you get to the point that it’s like, that’s okay. It’s great. It’s great. You hang out with the people that you want to hang out with, right past work time, and you get to choose the community you’re in.

Manuel Martinez: It does. And it’s really just, it comes down to, if I’m kind of hearing you right, it really comes down to one being confident in yourself and not worrying about what people are going to think about it. You’re like, I know I’m doing the right thing. And I agree with you. You don’t have to be friends with everybody. Like you can, you can and should be civil with everybody. And that’s the thing that I’ve learned is I don’t, I don’t have to be your friend. Like I can talk to you at work. I can have a conversation with you. Am I going to have drinks? Are we going to spend, you know, tons of hours together? Probably not unless we’re working on a project or something like that. But I can talk to you. I can be, I can be Manny with you, but know that once kind of the required or even just a little, hey, interaction, hey, how’s it going? Doing good? Good. And that’s it. And maybe it’s just like, hey, how are you doing? Good. And that’s it. And you don’t have to, doesn’t have to go beyond that.

Bri Haralson: Yeah. You don’t want it to because people aren’t going, especially people that you like have to work with, like people aren’t going to be motivated to get things done for you. Right? If you aren’t a nice person, and I’m not saying be, you know, Mary Poppins and be fake, but there is, there’s, you have to be civil. Like we’re all professionals, we’re all working right for a company and we’re going to need to work together. And I think if you’re in a situation where you have someone where that’s difficult, again, it goes back to like being upfront and having communication of like, Hey, you know, I, as a parent, it doesn’t seem like we like each other, right? And that’s okay. But here we are, we’re trying to support the better good of our, you know, our clients. What can we do to, you know, help move things along? And I think if you’re open and honest about things like that, I’m not saying like, go and tell someone you hate them, but you know, have that clear up if you’re, if you’re struggling, right, to, to move needles with them, have that conversation. I’ve had to have it. The tough conversations are, you know, I think something that help you grow in your career. You think about them, you’re like, I don’t want to do it. But usually it turns out much better than it was before.

Manuel Martinez: Well, it goes back to that clear communication with the people that you work with. Like you said, you’re like, here’s the expectation. The expectation is we’re not going to be friends. Let’s just –

Bri Haralson: And that’s okay.

Manuel Martinez: Let’s get past that right now. Okay. What do we need to do? And what are the interactions so that we can both be successful in our own rules?

Bri Haralson: Right? Or so you can limit your time talking to me. You don’t like me. Okay, too.

Manuel Martinez: You talked a lot about kind of building community and kind of enjoying the public sector side. One of the things that I’ve seen, and again, it’s not just 100% public sector, but I see that you are involved in kind of also leadership roles was within SIM. Yes. I may get this wrong, but I think it’s like Pubtech and then also InfraGard.

Bri Haralson: Yeah. PubSec Tech. Yes. PubSec Tech.

Manuel Martinez: PubSec Tech.

Bri Haralson: Yes.

Manuel Martinez: So that’s a lot of different things. And again, I know you talked about burnout and also kind of giving back and kind of spreading yourself thin. So I guess we’ll take whichever one you want to talk about first. You want to talk more about kind of burnout and kind of what led to kind of you overworking yourself and just kind of spreading yourself thin, but then also at the same time trying to be, sounds like you’re just a naturally helpful person. You want to build community. You want to do that, so.

Bri Haralson: I think I can answer like both of it all together, but it goes back to that kind of don’t seek work life balance, right? Do something in your work life that is true to who you are. So like the, you know, the secretary of SIM or the central VP of infra guard or, you know, pub sec tech, my organization, I don’t view that as work. So I don’t feel burnt out. I think it’s the moment that you start in your professional life working for people who either don’t lift you up or where it feels exhausting or you feel like you’re getting burnt out. That’s the stuff I’m going to be like, no, I’m not going to do that. And that’s, I think at one point in my career, that’s where I was at. You know, I’m a mother of three on top of this. I have three children, three dogs, a husband at home. You know, I worked really hard, but I was working in an environment that I felt like didn’t support me or helped me grow. And we weren’t really aligned on the mission. And so it felt like work, like the dreaded work that you’re just, I have to do this again and not a yada yada. So I’m still working at like 120%, but you know, and I don’t want to say for people I don’t like, but just people who are different, right? And that’s when you feel the burnout. But with that, as I grow, it’s like you can say no. So if there are certain things that you get that sense of feeling like, hey, this is going to exhaust me, whether it’s socially, physically, it’s okay to say no. And I’ve learned that, you know, I used to be yes, yes, yes, yes. And I still, yeah, I probably do say yes to a little more than I should. But again, because my work, like goals and my personal life and what I care about are so closely aligned, I just don’t feel that. It’s like, I get the privilege to do these board positions. I get this privilege to, you know, host my golf tournament and give back to the, you know, the veterans. I get the opportunity to bring this public sector, you know, technology people or folks all together. And that’s, I think, the big difference in, you know, what you’re doing burnout is, do you love what you do? And I know that’s simple, but

Manuel Martinez: It is. And I heard something recently, and it’s that burnout happens when there’s a disconnect, right? Between the, like the expectations and what you’re doing, like, it’s not so much that you’re doing too much, right? Because in this case, you enjoy it. I’m

Bri Haralson: always doing too much. Yeah. I thrive off the chaos.

Manuel Martinez: Well, and I’m right behind you. Like I do a lot and people are like, how do you do that? Like, why do this? Why do that? It doesn’t feel like work to me. I enjoy it. I still find time. And one of the big things that I had to do is to kind of conserve some of my energy is be present in that moment. Like when I’m at home, I have to be at home. Yeah. If I’m out at the SIM event, like, okay, I’m there. I’m not wondering about like, okay, I have to do this work stuff when I’m at work. But that burnout starts to happen when there’s a disconnect between, like you said, you’re dreading it. Like, here’s the expectation of what I need to do no matter what I’m cranking out. I’m putting in, you know, 60 hours, but I’m not able to reach that. That’s when you burn out as opposed to, well, here’s the expectation. I’m meeting it and I’m enjoying it.

Bri Haralson: Then it’s okay.

Manuel Martinez: I’ll go all day.

Bri Haralson: It’s funny because I’m actually an introvert, which I know everyone’s like, wait, what? You’re in sales. You talk for a living. You deal with people. So it’s called a schizoid and it’s not schizophrenic. It means you just prefer to be alone and you need time to recharge. And so part of me avoiding that burnout is making sure that they do set time aside for myself, where I, you know, I said I’m really into Korean dramas. So I, you know, I’ll sit there all day and I’ll watch them. Like, and that’s my reset button of like, you know, after a five day conference or being out in the field all week, I have that time for myself where, you know, even if I’m close to burnout, right, I recharge or plugging me back in and I’m getting that time to relax, you know, ease my mind. So that’s important too in your career. But those things that you say that do feel like burnout, like you just got to nip them in the bud and nip them in the bud early. If you’re not liking what you’re doing, not liking who you’re working for, like here’s the reality. They’ll get rid of you in a second. They don’t feel like they owe you anything. So do yourself a favor and go find something you love to do. Go work for where you want to, you know, work for. Like life’s too short.

Manuel Martinez: Yeah, well, and I like the, I forget the term that you said it’s schiz-

Bri Haralson: Schizoid.

Manuel Martinez: Schizoid. So one of the things that I learned, I thought that being an extrovert means that you were outgoing and these are completely different things. Like you being an introvert, does it surprise me? Well, no, I don’t know you well enough to know that that’s how that works. My wife is an introvert. I’m an extrovert. What does that mean? Just to kind of get some clarification is she is like you. She can be out. She doesn’t mind talking and being in large settings, but there comes a point where it’s too much for them. They need to recharge and she just needs to be alone, be at home. I’m the opposite because so I work from home. I’m alone most of the day. Like I’m on meetings and stuff like that, but I’m alone. So me going out to SIM, me doing this and me going out, I recharge by being out.

Bri Haralson: The social interaction.

Manuel Martinez: Yeah. It’s the social interaction because –

Bri Haralson: And it’s funny because those two people usually end up marrying each other all the time.

Manuel Martinez: And they do. And it’s so funny because it took me a while because I didn’t understand that that’s how that worked because there’d be a lot of times like I would be out at a conference, like you said the whole week I come back and I’m like, blah, blah, blah, blah. She’s like, didn’t you just come from talking to people? I’m like, yes. So now I learned that I come home. I’m still amped up because I just got energized. I have to take my two dogs. We go out in the backyard.

Bri Haralson: Tell them all about it.

Manuel Martinez: 20-30 minutes. I’ll talk to them. I just, even if I just don’t talk to them and I’m just kind of hanging out like that –

Bri Haralson: Decompression, yes. Decompression. And for me, it’s not a recharge. I’ve got to come down off of my high so that I can now interact with everybody else in the family.

Bri Haralson: I can recognize that though. There’s times where I’m like dreading to go do something and then after I do it, like the conversation is really good. The people are just really good quality people when I come back and like, man, I just feel so good. I’m so glad I did that. And that’s what gets you through to the next day. Now again, it’s not every time. And then I’m like, I really need this time to disconnect for eight hours, but I can see where those kind of interactions fuel you.

Manuel Martinez: The three organizations that you’re kind of involved in, they’re very different.

Bri Haralson: Yes.

Manuel Martinez: And what is it about each of these? Is it because they’re so different? I guess why are you involved and what do you get out of each one of them?

Bri Haralson: Yeah. So I would say they are different, but there’s a lot of similarities being that they’re all tech focused, right? So SIM, right? IT professionals, information management professionals, I’m not going to go ahead and say that full society and I don’t want to mess it up because

Manuel Martinez: Bri Haralson: That’s exactly what’s gonna happen. Exactly. Like I did. Like I did.

Bri Haralson: You know, you’re still dealing with IT professionals. And then when you look at InfraGuard, it is not necessarily technology. However, there’s a lot of folks, right, that are in technology because it’s about critical infrastructure and right security, whether that’s physical or cybersecurity. And so I got interested in that because of the cybersecurity piece because of my background, right? And my network. And then the PubSec Tech is actually an organization I came just to bring the community together and not have, you know, like vendor pitches or anything. But if you truly do need something, here’s the right person that you can go to, right? Or here’s who can help your organization or get you an intro over here, or maybe even expend your career. So it is all technology focused. It’s just different. But at the end of the day, if you look at it, it’s really just bringing the community together and networking, right? Learning and networking. I think SIM, SIM Nevada now attracted me, right? Because I’m in this community all the time. I’m with all these people. And it’s like, how can I give back? If I have these connections that maybe these folks don’t have, how can I help bridge the gap? I spent a lot of time in northern Nevada as well. So I think it was important for me to come at the time that I did as we merged the two together. So I can kind of be that liaison in between northern Nevada and southern as we become one in SIM Nevada. And then the InfraGuard one was actually, it’s funny because when the president had originally proposed, you know, “Hey, why don’t you think about being the central VP?” I was like, “I don’t think I’m qualified for that.” I just, some of, I mean, people are wickedly smart, you know, critical infrastructure is very important. And there’s different sectors, right? It’s not just public sector. It’s, you know, like farming and agriculture. There’s all these things that I don’t know. But at the end of the day, it was peeling it back like, “This is really just bringing people together, and I know how to do that.” Easy enough. And so I think that’s the common theme of all that. And then through that, the work that I do with those, I get to host fun events like Tee Off for Vets in Tech in northern Nevada and give back there. We’re forming a workforce development summit in Arizona to help bridge the gap for people, you know, K through 12 that go to college. How do we get them into, you know, jobs at the agency so we can fill open spots there? And hey, you’ve checked all these boxes, you’ve gone through it, you’ve had, you know, your hands on these tools. Well, hey, I work for a manufacturer, let me hire you. You’ve got like the, you know, recommendation there. And so what’s the path look like for that to help, you know, hire these students that are coming out of college, but fill the open spots at these agencies where, you know, someone from a Google is not going to go. Yeah. So it all has a theme.

Manuel Martinez: It does. And now I, as you talk about it, like I am, I saw it from just like, well, it’s IT related, maybe a little bit of public sector. So, but now, you know, as you explained, I’m like, oh, okay.

Bri Haralson: It’s all mission focused. That’s what like, everything that I do, I feel like ties back to a mission. And it’s not necessarily the same mission, but it is still of how do we become better together? Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: So outside of here, you and I talked a little bit about the fact that you’re a big reader. I know that you, similar to me, like, sounds like you kind of read a little bit of different things, but do you also read like management books? Is it more just for fun? And if you read more just on the, you know, whatever the split is, it doesn’t matter. Are there any books that you recommend or any that you have said like for yourself, like, man, I read this book and it was very beneficial to you because I took away this one thing that has helped me.

Bri Haralson: I do read a ton. I think we keep saying earlier when we came in, uh, I read about one to two books a week, um, half, do Audible. So like while you’re showering, while you’re getting ready, while you’re doing laundry, while you’re driving. Um, if you’re like me, you’re in an airplane all the time. Listen to books because the time that you actually get to sit and read, I don’t know about you, but that makes me fall asleep, even though I love it. So that allows me to read a lot. Um, I do split my time. So I read a lot of psychological thrillers, fantasy, like The Fourth Wing. Absolutely love those types of books, Lord of the Rings. So a mixture of that, but I sprinkle it in with leadership or industry, um, related books. So if I were to have to recommend one, it would be Extreme Ownership. And that goes back to where I was talking about, um, the former military people. So Jocko Willink and Leif Babin wrote it. And it really is about owning everything that happens, you know, in your life and taking that extreme ownership so that you can control the outcome so that it’s not necessarily like, well, this didn’t go the way that I wanted. But if you, you take that full ownership and it’s in little things like waking up early, something, right? Setting your goals, um, being accountable, right? For, for the goals that you set, like holding yourself accountable, those are all things that lead to your success at the end of the day, but also what you need to instill when you’re leading other people more importantly. So that would be one of my big ones. There’s also Recoding America. So a little public sector focus. Um, there was a consultant that came in and she worked on some of the larger agencies in California, but also some of those three letter names on like business process operations, but around technology and how to make constituent service better. But she also talks about how there’s like a fundamental law in how we operate, right? We expect these agencies to do all of this stuff with not a lot of budget, not a lot of people, right? The policies that are in place that are written at the top really don’t lend for like agility and what, you know, these IT teams actually need. And so that one really struck home for me just because it’s very relative to my day, you know, in and out, I can’t even talk today, my life, what I do day in, day out, so yeah. life, what I do day in, day out, so yeah.

Manuel Martinez: And it’s on my list. And for some reason I keep adding books, right? So it’s hard to kind of get to that, but Extreme Ownership is one I’ve read pieces and I’ve heard a lot about it, but I think you’re right. The big thing is just taking ownership and accountability for the things that you do. And you mentioned earlier when you would just kind of do the, like do the work, right? That’s how you’re going to rise up. And it’s, it’s not like, oh, well, this didn’t work out the way that I hoped it would. Well, no. Did it work out the way that you planned it to go? Did you do the activities? And I think that’s, that’s real important now is for people who are trying to get in or trying to rise up is, you know, through the ranks or, you know, Hey, I want this type of role. It’s not, it didn’t work out for me. What it didn’t work out or you didn’t do the things that needed to be in it. And I get it sometimes like you don’t, you don’t know what those next, like if I wanted to go into a different role and I don’t know enough about it, what didn’t work out? Well, did I do, and you mentioned Chelsea before, like she did deep dive research into, well, what do they do? What does this role? Let me talk to people and we asked the people. And I think that’s where a lot of times, and this is something that came later on in my career is the things that happened. Like when it feels like it aligned and I’m like, what did it really align or did I do –

Bri Haralson: What was needed – yes. All this – what was needed to get there –

Bri Haralson: Bri Haralson: Yeah. Did you put in the work?

Manuel Martinez: Did you put in the work? And when it didn’t is, well, did I do the work? Did the outcome match the inputs?

Bri Haralson: Yeah. And I think if you look at it, like the majority of times when you take ownership and you hold yourself accountable and you do the things that you say that you’re going to do, or you plan out, you’ll notice the majority of time, the outcome is positive in what you want it to be. Now, sure, they’re going to be headwinds, right? Where sometimes you’re deviated from the path and things don’t go the way, but that’s a learning lesson, right? And you take accountability again. It’s not someone else’s fault. It’s probably something right that I did so that you can rectify it and not have it again. But I did want to double click on something you said about, you know, Hey, maybe I applied for this job and it wasn’t the right time or something I did. So, um, I actually applied for a, um, leadership position, um, at my most recent company and I knew that I could, you know, I’ve been, I’d say out of the title leadership role for a little bit, but I knew I could do it. Like I know the market well. I knew the company well, et cetera. I went through the interviews, and it’s with people I work with, obviously. And there were some leadership changes that happened at the higher level and we brought on outside people. So I didn’t get it. And I had a choice at that point and I was like, okay, what am I going to do? Well, I committed. I said, Hey, you know, I’m going to just see where things go. I’m going to commit to what I’m doing here. Um, and at the time I was upset about it, right? It hurts. It’s like I’ve been here. I thought I put in the work. Um, I think I can really, you know, lead this team. And it wasn’t until about a month ago where I was able to step back and say, that was the right decision. It really forced me to step up and look at the things that I was doing and grow as a leader myself. And I was like, you know what? I don’t think I was ready. I think I needed that time. It made me seek out, right, additional things in the community of how can I lead these groups and lead without that title. It made me look at the team that I have now. And even if I’m not in this position, how can I still lead them and, you know, grow as a leader, as a coach, as a mentor. And, uh, it was very valuable. So I do think there are certain things that happen and timing is everything. And to take those times where things don’t work out, again, accountability, right? And look at it of what can I do now to better myself or to make it work in the future. And here I am accepting my next leadership position. And it, it all does work out at the end of the day.

Manuel Martinez: Now I’m going to touch on something that you said that I thought was very interesting. And I’d, I’d heard this once before when you said that you started getting involved more in these other organizations that kind of taken a step back and leading those roles. Would you say, especially because it just, the timing was perfect, reflecting and like, well, let me step up in these roles. Do you think that that was a lot more valuable than you thought, especially leading in external organizations? Because in those roles, and I’ve heard this with like Toastmasters, with SIM, with a number of these organizations is when you get into those leadership roles, you are leading because you’re not managing. These are all volunteers that people that show up like, sure, maybe they, some of them you pay a due, but I, it’s not like at work where I can’t tell you like, Hey, I need you to do this report.

Bri Haralson: Yeah. Yeah. Good luck. I need you to give a speech, you know, at the next meeting.

Bri Haralson: The chain of command. Yeah. No, thanks. There you really do have to lead because you have to lead in volunteer organizations. So would you say if someone who maybe didn’t get a leadership role or thinking about doing that, maybe getting involved in an external organization like that would be how you can acquire those skillsets without actually being in a title, like manager leadership-type role.

Bri Haralson: Absolutely. I think I’m an advocate for anything you can do in your life. If you want to be a leader, you need to live, right? That means you don’t want to just, I guess, take a leadership role, right? For the title. I see people do that and you don’t succeed because you aren’t tied back to the greater mission, right? You’re not invested in actually growing people, right? Our, our goals as leader is to create other people, right? Who want to lead and help them rise up. And so there’s a disconnect there if you’re just in it for the title. But when we’re talking specifically about going into organizations outside of your normal nine to five, it is different, right? You have people who are coming from all different backgrounds who are volunteering, volunteering their time, right? And you don’t have a direct, but I think to be intentional about what organization and community you are joining and leading, right? Because if you have really good people that are also leading, not only are you going to learn from them, but you don’t really need to tell them what to do. Everyone is stepping up to the plate, raising their hands and being like, Hey, I want to do this, or let me do this. Let me take this off your plate. So there doesn’t really need to be, I guess, like a chain of command authority. Of course, you do have different roles, like, you know, Bob is our president and, you know, if he tells us to do something, we’re going to do something like that. But it is, it’s interesting. And I think it shows a lot about that person when you take that kind of ownership of your future of, Hey, I might not have the title at my job, but what can I go do, right? To still grow and, and lead without that title. And so take the job, take the volunteering role, right? You can honestly go volunteer at a local like organization and lead all the volunteers. It doesn’t have to be something formal so that you get the experience, but it’s also not going to be an experience where, Hey, if you fail, you’re going to lose your job, you know, your income source, things like that.

Manuel Martinez: Yeah. And you could probably even on a smaller scale, like if there’s little projects that you want to try and maybe you’re not officially the lead, but, you know, trying to step up and take those roles. Like you mentioned, like I did that sometimes in school is there’s a group project. And I was like, I just want to get this done. Or, you know, you’re taking too long. I’ll just do it. And that wasn’t the right approach, you know, as you and I have both learned.

Bri Haralson: Yeah, we’ve both learned that. You can’t do that every time, but you can still lead and orchestrate, right? And implore other people to help you do it together. But at the end of the day, someone always needs to step up and, and take the lead. Right. Otherwise, it just is pure chaos.

Manuel Martinez: So you answered all of my questions and you kind of were able to go through and dive deeper into, you know, just different areas and aspects of your career and just kind of your experiences. Is there anything that we didn’t cover or things that you kind of, you know, maybe we glossed over and you’re like, Hey, maybe we should kind of touch on this a little bit more.

Bri Haralson: I think – I know I keep saying like, if I were to give you like one piece of advice, and then I said that like five times.

Manuel Martinez: Sure, well yeah, one piece of advice or even just like –

Bri Haralson: I’m going to have more advince right now.

Manuel Martinez: Even better. Or you just – just, the big thing I sometimes I tell people is, you know, looking back now, what’s, I guess, let me phrase it differently. Looking back now, what’s the one thing that you think really helped you in your career? And also what’s the one thing that you think had a negative effect? Like what’s that one challenge or that one thing where like, you know, and you kind of touched on it before, like, just put your head down and do the work.

Bri Haralson: Yeah, it’s not the right answer, but is the answer. It’s funny because it is. But I think for me, the biggest thing of like, absolutely do this is don’t be afraid to take the risk. There’s, I don’t know what the exact statistic is, but women are less likely to be in leadership, not because you know, the male, female thing or sexism, whatever it may be, it’s because women are afraid to actually apply for roles that they don’t feel like they’re qualified for. And so, take the risk. Apply for the job that all of the, you know, all of the bullet points might not naturally line up, but look at some of the stuff you do in your regular life to lead, you know, stay at home moms like that. There’s a lot that you do, right, to essentially project manage your life, your kid’s life, your husband’s life, right, your entire family, that you can apply towards your professional career, but you’ll never know if you don’t take that risk and put yourself out there. I think I attribute a lot of my success because I did that. I would always, it says, you know, master’s degree, I don’t even have a degree. I didn’t even end up finishing school and here I am, right? And I’m like, you know what, we’ll figure it out when we get there. It’s okay, this is what they’re saying, but I meet all these other traits, right? And I know that I can do a job, take that risk, click apply, send your resume, talk to someone who works there and see what you can do to get in. I feel like if you have enough ambition and belief in yourself, that will show and shine through even if you don’t, you know, meet all of those check mark requirements. On the bad advice or what would, what was it? Bad advice?

Manuel Martinez: Yeah, what’s the bad advice that you’ve got? What’s the one thing that you did that you’re like, I would, yeah, I would have done much better had I not done that.

Bri Haralson: It really is that putting your head down and doing the work. And again, yes, do the work, do what you’re say you’re going to do, but don’t keep your head down, right? Again, all the work that you’re doing, the time that you’re spending, it needs to be intentional, it needs to impact the people around you. And you can’t isolate yourself, right? I feel like a lot of isolation, isolation happens when you put your head down and that’s all you see, right? You have your blinders on and people aren’t receptive to that. They’re not willing to help you if you’re not willing to talk or help them or they don’t like you. And so yes, it is important to do the work, but don’t put your head down, put it up, engage, right? In conversations with the people you work with, your community, and don’t, again, don’t be like disingenuous, right? Don’t be fake if that’s truly not you, but take interest, right? And other people and the work that they’re doing and not just what’s on your plate.

Manuel Martinez: There’s a quote and I need to go back and find out where just because it’s come up lately. And it’s funny that you said that because it just instantly came through. I’ve gotten much better. I’m starting to write stuff down just like, “Oh, I heard this and I’ll write it down,” but I didn’t write down who actually said it when you talked about applying. And a lot of times it’s, I don’t think it’s insecurity or people talk about like imposter syndrome, stuff like that. I think it’s doubt, right? Do you have doubt that you’ll get at your doubt that you’re qualified enough? And the quote says, “The only way to remove doubt is through action.” And I was like, I heard that and I was like, “Yes.” Like, yeah, you could keep doubting, “No, should I? Should I?” The only way you’ll know is if you’re qualified or if you can get it is take action. Hit send, send your resume.

Bri Haralson: Here’s the worst thing that’s going to happen. Someone’s going to tell you no. And then what do you do? You take that, maybe look at, okay, why would they say no? And then from it. And then you go and apply for your next one. Or you set the foundation and you do, well, you keep bringing up Chelsea. Chelsea, you’re a big star today. Do the back work. Go to the events where you know they’re going to be at. Learn the people who are going to be in that interview panel, right? Learn about the company, what’s important to them, and then become that person where they can say yes to. Right. Yep. Action. I love that.

Manuel Martinez: I like that. It’s a good one, right? I’m going to make sure I find out who actually said that.

Bri Haralson: Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your time and all the advice and just kind of sharing your experiences and what worked for you and what didn’t. And I think a lot of times we are quick to talk about everything that went well for us. And I appreciate you, again, talking about the things like, hey, this didn’t work well. I thought it was because we don’t do it intentionally. I’m going to do this because it’s not going to work. But just kind of doing that. So again, thank you so much.

Bri Haralson: Yeah, thanks for having me and for the opportunity.

Manuel Martinez: And for everyone that continues to watch and listen and support what we’re trying to do. Again, I hope that you’re finding tremendous value in all of these conversations. And if nothing else, learn a little bit more about each of the guests so that if you run into them, you can have something that you learn from them and start a conversation that, again, maybe it may not lead to your next role, but there is a chance that you can develop a friendship or learn something that might help you as you reflect for your next opportunity. So continue to plug in and download the knowledge. And until next time. Thank you.